Building Your Business Ep. 32: Chris Cummins, Leadership and Communication

CCPIA (00:05)
Chris. Thanks for taking some time today and hanging out.

Chris Cummins (00:11)
Rob, thanks for having me, man. I’ve really been looking forward to conversation.

CCPIA (00:11)
⁓ you

well, that said, said nobody ever, I, I call you a friend. and we’ve met a few times and we talked about that. talked about that a little bit in our intro. ⁓ and what I find interesting is you call yourself. And this is a quote from your website, a strategic planner and facilitator.

What’s that?

Chris Cummins (00:44)
Well, I started in this sort of consulting and speaking business calling myself a speaker. And then I realized very quickly that when you get really deep into a business and you truly understand their business, you can facilitate incredible learning moments. And it’s not so much, hey, I read this book, you should do these three things now. It’s here’s what I’m noticing in your business that if you do these things differently and if you change this mindset,

It can move the needle on your business. So it’s really, there’s a lot of strategy involved and there’s a lot of facilitation instead of just Chris talk, someone listen, it’s more let’s have dialogue. Let’s figure out what’s working, do more of that, figure out what’s not working and do less. And there’s a lot of strategy behind it.

CCPIA (01:27)
We’re gonna be diving into that a little bit during this conversation, but I’ve sat down with, I don’t know, 40, 50 odd guests over the last few years and have had some wonderful conversations. But I’ll tell you what, I’ve never had a conversation with somebody that’s ever spoke on TEDx, let alone done it seven times. What was that like?

Chris Cummins (01:52)
⁓ If I’m being really real, Rob, terrifying. Absolutely. Especially the first one. know, friends of mine that say, I’m doing a TEDx talk. And I say, you know, the first one is the hardest. It’s the first pancake. It’s the most terrifying. I’ll tell you when you walk in to that theater, right? And you see T.E.D. on the stage. I can’t speak for anyone else. But for me, I was so in awe of that brand and also intimidated by

those three letters on the stage. So I got into my head, I got really deep into my head and ⁓ I’ve, you reprogramming, was it fear or was it excitement? It was a combination probably, but what was that feeling like? It’s, ⁓ there’s a lot, you know, there’s a lot on the line and you put a lot of pressure on yourself to perform well.

CCPIA (02:43)
How long does it take to prepare for one talk?

Chris Cummins (02:48)
Oh, Less time now than it once did. you know, a talk can take, it can take a year of percolating, right? I have what I call premise files. There’s just a file where I, you know, it’s got a page and I take some notes on this is, I’m going to be speaking at this conference about these things. Here’s a couple of things. I’ll be on a bike ride, you know, a 10 mile or 50 mile bike ride, and I’ll just come back and I’ll write some notes. So it’s, it’s very organic process. And it can take, you know, many months to craft an 18 minute.

CCPIA (02:51)
You

Chris Cummins (03:17)
presentation. Although I have to say my favorite ones are when we get into adult learning and, you know, give me 90 minutes as a keynoter or, you know, a half day or a full day as a trainer, you know, like yourself, that’s where we can really move the needle. Not a lot of movement can happen in 18 minutes, but you can plant a seed, right? You can plant an idea. And then it has the ripple effects. If you can spend more time working with those folks.

CCPIA (03:43)
I’ve had the great benefit, not to stroke your ego, but you know, why not, of watching you in action. And the times I’ve watched you, some of my favorite elements are how I watch you sit off stage, taking notes. And really, because you didn’t see a presenter’s…

Chris Cummins (04:04)
you see that, do you?

CCPIA (04:10)
notes ahead of time. I’m sure you didn’t. I’m sure you didn’t study them. This is all pretty spontaneous, but you have it. And again, stroking all aside, you have this ability to take those notes and then come back and in their outro, facilitate those three or four key points to make an affirmation.

to those in the audience, the hundreds or so that are sitting out there in the cheap seats going, yeah, this is what you just heard. Are you paying attention? And that’s a skill. And that’s one of those things that I really appreciate when I watch you in action.

Chris Cummins (04:56)
Well, number one, thank you for the compliment. Number two, ⁓ I have watched hosts and masters of ceremonies and keynoters get on a stage, not acknowledge what happened before and not reference what’s going to happen afterward and contradict the speaker before or, you know, step in it and say, hey, I don’t know how you do it in this industry, but when we were in this industry, we did it this way. And you realize, my friend, you just lost the audience. Right. I never

Rob, I never want to be that guy. I want to be that guy where people say, huh, he’s been here that he’s been taken out. He’s experienced the same thing I have. And I put on my sort of my adult learning, you know, curriculum designer hat. And I think to myself, OK, what is the conference? What are the conference objectives? What is the conference organizer trying to achieve with this? They brought in this keynoter. Now, knowing what I do about the themes and where I’m going to go with my keynote, I’m

I’m going to take some notes when they say some things that hit those, right? So that when I come up, whether I’m hosting and introducing, you know, thanking Rob for speaking and then introducing the next speaker, I don’t want to be that guy who mispronounces the name and can’t even tell you what we just heard. I’d rather be the guy that sums it up. Now, here’s the selfish part, Rob. I’ve learned. I retain more when I take notes in preparation for teaching it. So I take better notes.

when I know I have to in, you 46 minutes from now when I’m on the stage, I know I have to teach this back to the audience, I retain more. So it actually, helps me be more on my game. It helps me pay more attention, pay better attention when I know that I need to teach it. So ⁓ A, thank you for noticing that. And B, I’ve also watched people do it so poorly and I think I don’t want that experience for an audience.

I want to create a through line so that the audience says, wow, this guy’s been paying attention. And hey, I thought of that. I should have written that down. I really appreciate that reminder. So two things happen. Number one, it helps create a better experience for the audience. And as I just mentioned, selfishly, it helps me retain it and learn it, which I get great joy out of my brain growing.

CCPIA (07:07)
That’s really a key point that

that that’s lost on so many, I’m going to say conference attendees. I’ve been one, you’re you’ve been one, you’ve been a presenter, I’ve been a presenter. And when you when you sit there in the audience going, I know this topic, I know this topic, I know this topic, ⁓ and you zone it out, you you missed that five minutes.

in between the 36th and the 41st minute of that one pearl of the one nugget that you can use almost perpetually moving forward. sometimes it takes the knock on the head from an expert in that liaise, in that segment between the two.

to really remind everybody, don’t zone out. You know, this is key and you see it all the time. So I appreciate that more than you think, Chris.

Chris Cummins (08:04)
Hmm.

Well, if I can tell you, this is not my idea. I learned it from one of my mentors, guy named Jeffrey Gidamer, who’s written, I don’t know, probably two dozen books at this point. He taught me many years ago. He said, Chris, when you’re listening to a training or hearing a speaker or reading a book or just if you’re taking in information, here’s most people run out of filter. He said, here’s how most people process. They say, have I heard that before? Yes or no? If I have heard it before, I should discount it.

I’m looking for new. I want to have new. Are there any new ideas? What’s new? I need a new idea. So what he taught me, Jeffrey taught me, he said, Chris, do not listen to a training or participate in a training with that have I heard it? Yes, no filter. He said, here’s the filter I want you to use. I have goosebumps right now, Rob, because this has impacted my life. He said, don’t ask yourself, have I heard that before? Ask yourself, how good are you at that? And rate yourself.

Like, have I heard that before? Yeah. Okay, but how good are you at it? Not very. Okay, so maybe you should apply, right? So if you change the filter from have I heard that idea before? Yes or no. And you make the filter, how good am I at that thing? Is there room for improvement? Yes, then I should probably pay closer attention. And as someone else said, actually, before a conference recently, they said, Chris, what are you going to teach us that’s brand new? And I said,

You know, if I’m being super real, I’m more of a professional reminder. Like I work with smart, motivated, like bright people. ⁓ And I oftentimes I’m just I’m here to give you a little jab in the side of the, you know, the torso or whatever, or give you a little nudge to get you doing the thing that you used to do that made you successful that you’ve stopped doing, or something that you’ve heard before, but you haven’t implemented, right? So I’m not here to give you the brand new my gosh, this is the knowledge bomb that’s gonna

fundamentally change your life. No, no, I’m here to remind you of some success principles, some business philosophy, maybe some tactical things that will help you improve your business. And when you go with that filter, ⁓ the stage is wide open.

CCPIA (10:23)
Yeah, I got something I want to go to, but it reminds me, as I was deep diving your website, you talk about the growth zone and overcoming fears. And this is a little bit like that of just how do you overcome and why is it so important to overcome these fears, especially as you’re thinking about the inspection industry.

Chris Cummins (10:36)
Hmm.

Well, when I think of the inspection industry and I overlay like residential inspections and then overlay commercial inspections, right? What I’ve noticed and being in a room, mean, if I can just toot your horn for a second, being in a room when you’re on the stage, ⁓ I attended one of your trainings for multiple days, And watching your depth of knowledge of commercial is inspiring and admirable. ⁓

CCPIA (11:00)
Yeah.

Chris Cummins (11:23)
But what I noticed ⁓ when you were teaching was the people who’d only ever done residential inspections, they hear what you’re saying. Like intellectually, they’re like, yeah, yeah, that makes sense. A lot of sense. I get it. And then when you challenge them and I watch you do this, you challenge them and say, OK, so are you going to go implement? Right. And well.

Not right now. I’m busy. I’ve got stuff to do. I’m afraid of my shadow. I don’t have enough in my checking account. I’m too tall. Whatever. Like I’m too tall. I’m too short. I’m too thin. I’m too fat. I’m too rich. I’m too poor. Or maybe rich might not be an impediment. I mean, we come up with these excuses, right? And so I watch residential inspectors say, want to get into commercial, take a commercial course. And then they’re just they’re just afraid enough that they don’t they don’t

CCPIA (12:00)
It could be.

Chris Cummins (12:12)
Go book a meeting with someone to have a commercial inspection conversation because they… I’ve had this conversation with a couple residential who want to get into commercial. They said, you know, I’m just not ready. Just not ready. this oftentimes conferences, they want to go into this sort of growth zone conversation. And so it’s not rocket science. It’s almost overly simple, Rob. But the I once saw a trainer draw a box, right? They drew a box on a flip chart.

thing, just picture a rectangle. If you’re listening on audio, there’s just a rectangle. And they call this, this is your comfort zone. This is when your heart rate is normal. Your breathing is fairly shallow. Your palms aren’t sweaty. You know, you’re just chill. Picture, you know, doom scrolling or whatever on Instagram, it’s like we’re our heart rates low, our breathing shallow, we’re just relaxed. That’s in your comfort zone. Something nudges you out of your comfort zone.

Whatever it is, it could be a sound, it could be a person, it could be a circumstance, whatever it is, suddenly you’re really uncomfortable. Well, if I were to measure your heart rate and I were to measure your breathing, we’d notice a pretty huge change, right? Your breathing gets, oh man, I’m nervous, I’m freaking out, there’s stuff happening, adrenaline’s pumping, our heart rate increases, our breathing gets way more deliberate. We’re uncomfortable. So this mentor of mine said, Chris, what’s interesting is,

When we’re sitting in our comfort zone and we want life to change and we want to grow, and then when we get pushed outside of our comfort zone, we take all of our effort to push ourselves back into that place of comfort, but we shouldn’t. And I was like, what do mean? He said, no, we should stay in the discomfort for longer.

because that’s when we grow.

And I was whole. We spend so much effort going into the comfort zone again. I got to get back to my heart rates lower again. OK, I’m more chill and everything’s fine. I feel better. Something nudges us. Hey, go have a conversation about commercial that you’ve never had before. my gosh, I’m uncomfortable. I don’t want to feel uncomfortable, so I’m not going to do it. Therefore, I shall feel comfortable yet again. And then you get on the stage and you nudge them. You’re like, hey, go into that uncomfortable spot.

Go have a conversation with someone where you don’t know all the answers yet, but you have to have your first conversation about commercial in order to get in commercial. Right? As one friend says, he keeps talking about the first pancake. The first pancake never looks gorgeous. Stop aiming for perfection and try stuff. Be uncomfortable. Don’t know all the answers. And instead of seeking perfection, go after progress. Just every day. Get a bit better at those conversations. So…

What I see is a residential inspector oftentimes gets fearful because they don’t know everything yet. You don’t have to know everything. Just start having commercial conversations and you’ll pick up little bits, pick up little bits and you’ll get better. Isn’t that how we all learn?

CCPIA (15:17)
I would like to think so. ⁓ I try not to place any time stamps on any of these conversations. I never know when the producers are gonna get done and get all this edited up.

It’s Olympic time right now. And I just recently watched the 1980 ⁓ US hockey team’s documentary on one of the pay channels. And they talked about that poignant scene in the movie Miracle, where they had just won or lost against the Norwegian team.

And whatever it was, the coach was not happy. ⁓ he wasn’t happy because they were so busy watching the girls up in the stands and not concentrating on the hockey game that for hours, they made him run line suicides until they were just dead. And it’s a little bit like you’re going to be uncomfortable. out of that, you know, running

or skating line suicides for hours to the point of exhaustion. When you get over that hump and come out the other side, you’re better for it. And to your point, that’s what you’re being uncomfortable. You come out the other side of uncomfortable. You’re better for it. You’re stronger for it. And I think you can be a better inspector for it. Because you’re not that smart.

I’m not.

Chris Cummins (16:58)
Well, a friend of mine who…

Yeah, he’s been extremely successful in life. But he said, look, I didn’t even finish high school. Like, I’m not a rocket scientist here. But he’s done extremely well. And I asked him about stress. When you get to a certain number of employees in your company, or you get to a certain amount of revenue in your thing, or as an inspector, you start increasing fees and you go into commercial, which are different fees in residential, and you experience that discomfort, I asked him, actually. I said, like,

How do you deal with that stress? Right? Because we can call discomfort stress. Right? I’m stressed. Are you stressed? You’re uncomfortable. Are you uncomfortable? Or are you, you know, nervous? Like they’re all related. But that tightening of the stomach or in the words of Eminem, know, your knees are weak, your palms are sweaty. You got vomit on your sweater already. Mom’s spaghetti. You know, on the surface he looks calm and ready, but he’s freaking out inside. ⁓ I said, how do you deal with that stress? And he goes, Chris, that’s stress or anxiety or

⁓ fear of trying new things like they’re all related that soup he said you just got to get your reps in it’s like going to the gym and It sounds almost too simple But he said look first time you go to gym you do whatever five pounds or ten pounds or you know and eventually you get good at that it doesn’t feel as hard anymore and then you you know you increase your weight you increase the resistance and then eventually you get better but there is discomfort right when you hit the fatigue point or you hit the the max ⁓ but he said

As long as you’re okay with that discomfort, you’re gonna grow. But the key is, like, you can’t be expecting comfort all the time. And so that growth zone is when we dance with the fear and we do it anyway. That growth zone is, that’s rectangle, I was asking you to picture. If we’re inside the rectangle, that’s our comfort zone. Well, there’s a little asterisk, you know, two or three inches outside of that comfort zone, it’s where the magic happens. And the more times we can push ourselves,

to go into that uncomfortable spot, to try a new conversation, to have a conversation with someone where we don’t know all the answers yet, to potentially have imperfect results. That’s where we grow. And that’s where I’ve noticed the most successful people in any industry, they’ll just keep going back to that. Just getting my reps in, increasing the weight, keep going.

CCPIA (19:25)
I’m hoping that everybody’s listening to this is he’s got things playing. know, the movie in their head is playing right now of times they were not comfortable, times they were stressful, how they overcame it. I mean, I think of my, all of a sudden you told that story and immediately I start thinking about my sainted grandmother. She broke a toe.

before every major life event. Everyone, yeah, I graduated high school. She broke her toe that morning. I graduated eighth grade, broke her toe. My brother, my dad got married, broke her toe. You it’s just, you’re thinking about it. So that was always our lucky charm of we got something going on. It’s a baptism or a christening or this or that. How’s grandma? Oh, she broke her toe. Gonna be a great day.

gonna be awesome. This is gonna be a big event. But it’s just one of those, it’s amazing how tricks get played, but that’s where my head went ⁓ on that, Chris. So I think about this and…

Chris Cummins (20:19)
You’re kidding me. That’s awesome.

CCPIA (20:36)
I know those listening or watching, however, they’re, they’re participating in this, or maybe they got this on audible. ⁓ They’re, they’re going, why the heck am I talking to Chris Cummins ⁓ from, from Toronto, Canada about commercial property inspections? He’s not an inspector. Well, the reason is you have this very

unique perspective that I want to harness. And what this perspective is, is as I said in the introduction, I met you because you have been facilitating and keynoting meetings for one of Canada’s largest, if not the largest inspection franchise company. And we met and

And I enjoyed our company. I enjoyed our conversations and then turn around. They brought the CCPIA up to provide a an individualized individualized private training for 25 of their operators. And you facilitated that meeting. And and this particular company did a monster complete rebrand.

retool of their entire company wide processes to be a commercial property inspection company concurrently with a residential inspection company and so You have a unique perspective Chris that you sat there for all three days of death by PowerPoint and You sat there ⁓ on our mock inspections

facilitating between sessions and ⁓ motivating. I want to talk about this transformational process. How do you believe that transformation occurs between residential and commercial and helping stave off, not stave off because we can’t, we just talked about it, assuage some of those fears.

that might occur.

Long words.

Chris Cummins (23:08)
The transformation that I saw and that I’ve seen in some of these inspectors that I’ve been following now, whom I met in that class. ⁓

The transformation, a lot of it has to do, and it’s going to sound strange, but I’ll ⁓ tie it back. A lot of it has to do with attitude. Part of it is…

Am I worthy of being a commercial inspector? Do I have the chops? Do I have credibility? Am I allowed to work in that space? I’ve heard they charge more in commercial than they do in residential. I’ve heard 50,000 square foot or 200,000 square foot warehouses are different than a thousand square foot house. So it’s almost as though

CCPIA (23:47)
Yes.

Chris Cummins (24:06)
a residential inspector who’s got a great business, who’s doing super things, but they’re sort of peering over like a metaphorical fence, right? And they’re like, what’s going on over there? What are they? I don’t know if I could make it over there. That sounds hard. I’m not credible yet. I don’t know this stuff. And I would suggest, Rob, that ⁓ a guy named Jim Rohn, I studied him extensively,

from the sort of 80s and 90s, R-O-H-N. He has lots of business philosophies, he says, and it was his mentor, Earl Shulff, that taught him, says, success leaves clues. Success leaves clues. And if you wake up one morning and decide, I wanna be a commercial inspector, and then you try to invent everything yourself, it’s gonna be very, very challenging. You’re gonna have a lot of fear, a lot of unknowns, and a whole lot of mistakes because you’re learning on your own.

time and your own experience, right? And then I watched you facilitate, then you say death by PowerPoint, but I don’t know, I don’t think you had that many PowerPoint slides. You had incredible case studies and examples and stories, you know, which I just think were so relevant for the crew. ⁓ But I watched some of the transformation. ⁓ Probably halfway through day two, a couple of people, they were kind of like, huh, so that’s…

That’s really not that different than when I do it this way in residential. And you were like, aha, you are correct. Like, so there’s a there’s a tiny bit of worthiness. There’s ⁓ an attitude. There’s a ⁓ am I allowed to work in this space? Could I be invited to that birthday party, even though I don’t know those people that well, you know, metaphorical birthday party, but they’re peering over the fence or like, I don’t know, that’s tough. And then you or I sort of

open the gate and the fence and we’re like, hey, come on over. Like, have a look. You know, you’ll find the waters warm. Like, come on in, we got the pool, we got the grill going. And so what I noticed is in this, gosh, Rob, this is my 20th year giving speeches and consulting full time now for Cummins Media, my company. So I’ve worked in a lot of different organizations and helped a lot of different companies in many different sectors. But this applies everywhere. It’s

the openness to grow and being open to the idea that that’s available for me.

So if you’re closed, if you’re like, I’ll never be, okay, then your brain and your unconscious mind are gonna go find all the reasons why you can never do that thing or never be that thing. But if you’re open to the idea that you could add commercial inspection to a residential inspection business, and if what Jim Rohn says is true back in the 80s and 90s, if success leaves clues, then let’s follow those that have become successful in that thing we wanna learn, and then learn from them instead of learning from our own.

experience, right? So I see you, Rob, as you’re walking along the path, you’re 50 or 70 yards ahead of me. It’s dark, we’re in a forest. You’ve got a flashlight, right? You got a bright light in your hand. You’re walking ahead of me a bunch of yards, and you turn around and you point the flashlight on the path, and you say, hey Cummins, there’s a thing there, watch out, step over that.

Okay, go to the right a little bit. You might not see it, but I can see it from here. There’s a stick. It’ll hit you in the face unless you duck a little bit. Okay, go under there and I’ll come back to the path. That’s someone metaphorically walking the path ahead of me. Instead of trying to just go bushwhack and figure it all out myself, find someone who’s met with success and then learn from them. And then this guy, Rob, shows up from the CCPIA, does this three-day training. And then we did that mock inspections as well where we took them on site.

⁓ to a couple of different places and ⁓ you could see them applying what you did in the classroom, you could see them doing it in person and I had this realization, I think I told you, I pulled you aside, I was like, it landed and you can see people realizing it’s not that, it’s not as complex as I thought, right? There are differences, conversation difference, billing difference, pricing differences, you know, but there’s a lot of similarities.

CCPIA (28:17)
Yeah.

but we’re not landing

a fighter jet in the dark on an aircraft carrier. It’s not that difficult. mean, this is, it’s just an inspection. Now, you, go ahead.

Chris Cummins (28:37)
Right?

But if you’ve never so, yes.

I hear you say that. I hear you say it’s just an inspection. ⁓ And knowing a couple things. Number one, I’ve never done a commercial inspection, right? ⁓ So when you say it’s just an inspection, my brain goes, yeah, but.

And it gives a whole list of all the reasons why it’s not just an inspection pal. I wouldn’t even know how to access the elevator room, let alone what to look for. I wouldn’t know what to do with the HVAC system. I don’t even know, you know, what’s 450 volts anyway. I’ve never seen that in a residence. So there’s there’s there are unknowns, right? There are there are areas where we’re like, I don’t know that. And so if I what is that phrase? There’s the stuff I know that I know. There’s the stuff that I know that I don’t know. Right.

But then there’s this whole area of unknown unknowns. There are things that I don’t even know that I don’t know about. And that’s the scary dark part where I don’t want to go into that closet and step in something. Or I don’t want to walk that dark path and hit my head on a big stick, right? So the changes that I’ve noticed in the cohorts that I’ve watched you teach, it’s this realization that, huh, someone’s walked the path before me and they’re willing to share the stuff with me. Maybe I can do this.

Maybe it’s not a big scary thing that I thought it was. Maybe I am worthy. Maybe I could be smart enough. And it goes back to, are you open to the fact that this might be attainable for you? Because that openness just nudges a little door open, right?

CCPIA (30:23)
When we were together last, I think of the group we were in.

there’s two distinct messaging styles between residential messaging and commercial messaging. And I found that ⁓ the most questions that I garnered or came at me were from those that were not in that session.

because they don’t understand the two messaging styles of how you communicate and how you grow. Have you seen that in your facilitating with this company?

Chris Cummins (31:13)
⁓ Let me see if I understand the question. You’re saying, have I noticed a difference between people who’ve been in your CCPIA class and not?

CCPIA (31:19)
of

how they’re presenting their message, how they’re talking about commercial. I know you alluded to it earlier going, yeah, I’m afraid. But those that have not walked the same path, they don’t carry that same message of comfort.

Chris Cummins (31:31)
sure. Yes. There’s

So ⁓ you call it a message of comfort. I could maybe call it a vibe or a sense of calm or a ⁓ you could maybe call it confidence. You ⁓ you don’t have to be a commercial inspector for 35 years to have some confidence in your abilities, right? I would expect someone who has been would have a lot of confidence in one’s own abilities. ⁓ But what I noticed is ⁓

a realization that ha it’s not as complex as I’d thought. There are unknown unknowns. There are areas that I need to dig in on and I need to go deeper on and I definitely need to go walk a warehouse with someone who’s, you know, done this before so they can show me what to look for. But ⁓ to your point, I would say some people realize, huh, it’s an inspection. elements, but it’s really not that different.

CCPIA (32:39)
we were last together at this conference, you had brought in, I believe you probably helped create the sessions. And you brought in a very well-known real estate speaker. And this particular speaker talked about

when she needed an inspector, she had her inspector. And all of a sudden this inspector was not available. So another inspector was sent. And he did basically a floor show. His songs and dances and probably spun plates and did all kinds of interesting things. And she was not happy. And me personally, when I present or when I’m training or

even when I’m doing inspections, I do some humor, but it’s relatable. It’s to a point. I try to do some relatable quips talking about things because I mean, I got to use words I can spell and I’m a public school kid. How important do you think, you know, building business relationships and especially long lasting relationships, humor plays into it?

Chris Cummins (33:59)
I have a couple of things to say about that. Number one, ⁓ in my opinion, business relationships are the core of business. I’m almost finished writing a book called The Human Side of Business, and it’s all about the human connection and human relationships. ⁓ The interesting thing about humor is…

Don’t try to be someone you’re not because we can all sense it, right? I was gonna say smell, but it’s not smell, but we can all sense like, ⁓ someone’s trying too hard, right? So if you are ⁓ naturally, if you’re, you heard us. But if you’re naturally funny and it’s you, then be you.

CCPIA (34:34)
But doofus has a smell.

Chris Cummins (34:44)
Absolutely, because we can also tell when you’re not being you. There’s just this uncanny sort of vibe. Someone was off with that guy. I don’t know. He just seemed off. So I remember that presentation and I kept thinking when that real estate agent was saying, you know, they sent this other inspector, it was just like disingenuous and it felt weird and the vibe was off and they didn’t read the room and my customers were turned off. I would argue it wasn’t the humor. It was probably that there wasn’t a real human connection and

They they hadn’t built rapport yet and I would argue if this person was nervous It was their first time with this agent this agent does lots of business So they were thinking there’s lots on the line So they had to try really hard and by trying really hard they pushed them away ready. I saw sort of five things happening ⁓ The the key in my opinion is to be real be you and It sounds again. It sounds trite, but ⁓ if you’re trying really hard to be that

professional person that’s not you, then they’re going to know it. If you’re trying to be that really hilarious person, but we’re not hilarious, then they’re going to know it. how important is humor? I would say it’s an ingredient in real human connection and you being yourself and creating an environment where they can be themselves. That’s where you deepen the human connection. And that, my friend, is this whole business. When you’ve got deeper human connection, you have deeper trust. When you have deeper trust, we’re willing to bring you back and we’re willing to tell.

our friends about you, which then grows our business through referral,

CCPIA (36:16)
It’s interesting you say that.

Most inspectors are solitary creatures. We work out of the dungeons and dredges of our basements or the office we built in the attic of the garage that we just sit in and perspire all summer and freeze all winter. And we don’t really have any social interactions besides our clients.

and however that works out. Most of us, I know I’m a treat for myself. I’m working seven days a week because this is how I feed my family because it’s going to go slow at some point. And the old joke used to be, Chris, my wife and I have no friends and we’re comfortable with that. And we’d be walking around the home store, somebody say, hi Rob. And I’m just going to turn around and say, hi, how’s the house? Because I’m sure you’re a past client. I don’t remember you.

But you’re certainly not one of my friends because I don’t have any. And so it was always ended up that way. When we were together last in front of this group, you really spoke about something that was special. And again, this goes back to we work alone. You don’t get done with an inspection. Get in your vehicle and there’s high fives.

There’s high fives with whoever’s sitting in the car. You gotta high five yourself. And you told the story of a time that you created an affirmation for yourself. Can you share that?

Chris Cummins (38:03)
Hmm. Yes, I remember it well. And in fact, that was the first time I’ve ever told that story on stage in front of an audience. It was me being real. Someone asked me recently, they said, you’ve done a bunch of speeches, you’ve been doing this 20 years, I guess you don’t get nervous anymore. What would you say to someone who gets nervous still? And I said to them, the nerves don’t go away.

And they were like, what? You don’t look nervous up there. I’m like, yeah, but I am. It’s slightly different. I mean, I have some confidence in my ability, but I’m still really hard on myself, right? And there’s a lot of, like, there’s a lot of voices in here telling me that, Chris, you’re not smart enough. You don’t deserve to be on that stage. Who the heck do you think you are with your little blue pressed shirt? You’re just trying to, like, there’s so much noise. And sometimes I have to be like, shut up, all of you, shut up. We’re trying to give a speech here. Stop talking.

⁓ The thing you’re referencing was I was working on a multi-day event with a very large client. There was a lot on the line, huge ⁓ obnoxious fees. There was a lot on the line, right? And I was very hard on myself leading up to it. I didn’t get that much sleep, extremely stressed, wasn’t sure if I could pull it off, super nervous. And afterward there was a standing ovation, client thrilled.

Client says we’re doing more of these. This is exactly what we wanted. Let’s do more.

And Rob, I sat down, I found a spot outside. It was at a gorgeous resort property and I found a spot outside looking over the ocean. There’s gorgeous trees and plants and it was just wonderful weather. And I sat there in my suit.

just sort of grinning like what just what just happened? How did I go? How did I beat myself up so much? And then that happened. I need to remind myself of this. So in that moment, I recorded a video with the intention of never sharing it with anyone. Right. The intention was I’m going to record a video of me to future me to remind me of this feeling.

because it’s so fleeting. It disappears so quickly and you jump back into the thing and you’re all nervous and freaking out about stuff again. So I decided to record a quick two minute video of myself saying, hey Chris, this is to future you to remind you that you’re actually really good at this. You just got a standing O, the client is really thrilled. They’re very pleased with the fees. No one’s upset at all. All of those fears and all those concerns and all that noise and the sleepless nights.

You maybe didn’t need it. You’ve been doing this 20 some odd years now. Your little reminder for future Chris, you’re good at this. You’re going to be okay.

I just saved that little video and I was going through super stressful, know, six or eight months later and I played the video and I robbed it. The impact of past Chris talking to future me who is now present me was like, wow, it was kind of amazing. So that’s when I decided, I think I think I’m going to share this for the first time ever at a conference. And that was the conference you attended where I ended up playing that video. I’m curious what

What was that experience like for you seeing the video of Chris talking to future Chris, knowing that thinking that no one else would ever see this video.

CCPIA (41:43)
It was powerful. It was powerful to the point. I’ve never done that. I’ve never made a video. typically before I do a three day, which I do a dozen or more times around North America every year. I don’t sleep the night before or because I’m I’m I’m part nervous, mostly excited. I have some trepidations.

Don’t know what the group’s going to be like, you all those things play in your head. And I’ve never sat down and made a video, but I can say that the end of my three day, I always sit by myself and think about then you beat yourself up. Personally, I beat myself up. You know, you didn’t hit that hard enough. You hit that a little too hard. Boy, you didn’t go over the top on that. You didn’t do this. You didn’t do that. And, and I think to myself,

after sitting there in the room going, maybe I’ve got to carry something in my pocket that reminds me or have a video to myself that reminds me that I was good enough and I did it well. And that’s what I took out of it, Chris, is not to be afraid. mean, the very first time you and I ever met ⁓ was probably

one of the top five best times I’ve ever had up on a presentation stage mentally. Because ⁓ that was at an event up in Vancouver that we did that somehow to wrap all this up in a neat little bow, whoever was ahead of me, which was either you or somebody else talked about the comfort zone.

Chris Cummins (43:25)
Mm-hmm.

CCPIA (43:40)
I carry a poem in my backpack every day and I have for decades called The Comfort Zone. And so I led my presentation with the reading of The Comfort Zone because I listened and then I, and so that was like, it was like a comfort hug, putting the ball on the tee, knowing that there’s no way I’m gonna miss this one.

⁓ I can swing a thousand times any other time and maybe only hit the ball well half of them. But I know this particular time, this ball’s going straight down the fairway. It’s not gonna fade, it’s not gonna draw, and it’s gonna roll down a hill to an easy chip and run. And so when you asked me, what did I get out of that session? I got exactly what you hoped I’d get out of

is I would remember these good points so that I don’t destroy myself, which in this business, not the speaking and educating, but the inspection business can absolutely destroy yourself because you’re dealing every day with somebody that has a different point of view than you do. They’re buying, they’re selling, they’re maintaining. They have an arguably

different attitude that you have to sometime, someway, somehow mesh to. And if you don’t,

you feel it. Whether or not that came across, you feel it. And that’s what I got out of it, Chris. And that’s why I wanted to bring it up is my golly, that hit home on my side of the table.

Chris Cummins (45:37)
The ⁓ the discomfort leading up to anything. Let’s say the discomfort leading up to the first residential inspection someone ever does right the discomfort leading up to that first Commercial inspection the discomfort leading up to that first pancake right the discomfort leading up to that first Tedx talk I’ll tell you the seventh was way easier You know a friend of mine did his first Tedx talk. He was like I hated it. I can’t believe I’m so disappointed Yeah, the first one always sucks. He’s like you should I should do more. I said,

What time you get to five, you’re gonna be great. But I mean, maybe not for everybody to go on that trajectory, but ⁓ I’m reminded of another one of my mentors, a guy named Dan Sullivan. He has a program called the Strategic Coach and it’s for ⁓ entrepreneurs and many people in the financial planning world, but he got together with a guy named Benjamin Hardy and the two of them wrote a book called The Gap and the Gain. ⁓ It’s a…

I believe reading that book is what prompted me to record that video to my future self. Right? So there I was basking in the huh, I wasn’t as bad as I thought. Actually, I think it went very well. I now realize that I’m not bad at this. And I can, you know, unapologetically state that because no one’s going to see this video. So I’m not being a, you know, an egomaniac. I’m just recording a video for myself saying I’m really good at this. I need to remember this because this feeling is and I remember I was like this feeling right here.

it’s good. Holy smokes. You know, so I did that over two and half minutes. But this this book, The Gap and the Gain by Dan Sullivan and Benjamin Hardy, he says too often, especially high performing people, too often we look at the gap between where I am and where I want to go. And we’re disappointed because we haven’t made the result that we want yet. And we beat ourselves up because we haven’t achieved that. And what they say in The Gap and the Gain is like, turn around for a second.

and look at what you’ve gained. Look how far you’ve come. Just reflect for a second how far you have come. Look at all the progress you’ve made in all of these years since you did that first thing ever. And let’s recognize how great that growth has been and live in that sort of soup of neurotransmitters and take an inventory of, huh, I have done some stuff. I’ve achieved some things.

I’ve built a family. I’ve got a 19 year old, an 18 year old and a 14 year old. And this takes a lot of work. And I’m really proud of these young people that they’re about to go, you know, have a positive impact on the universe. I’ve done some stuff, but too often we look at, well, I haven’t done this and I didn’t do that yet. And I didn’t achieve this and I tried that and it didn’t work. And I beat myself up about all the bad things about Chris. No, sometimes you got to take an inventory and recognize we’ve made some gains too. So I think that book.

is what prompted me to record that video. And that video has helped me and I’ve heard from other folks who were at that conference recently in Halifax, you know, huh, maybe I should record that for myself when something goes really well to remind future self that it’s not all bad. It’s a very powerful exercise.

CCPIA (48:43)
Yeah, you gotta stand back every once in while. You’re right and take stock. Just gotta do that mental inventory.

Chris Cummins (48:57)
Well, and if we if we draw a parallel.

CCPIA (48:58)
So we’re

running up close. I want to ask one more thing and I want to put you on the spot. after you know, you’ve done a lot of things and you either you’ve done a lot of things with with helping large corporations, inspection companies, just your whole myriad. Can you give me a real short one to three item list of actions or things?

if you were thinking about doing something and we’re going to say very specifically what a commercial inspector might do this year that’s going to put an immediate influence moving forward. What would be one or two or three things that you would suggest that they do that influences either their mindset or their actions?

Chris Cummins (49:57)
When you say I’m putting you on the spot, thought, all right, well, let’s go. And so as you’re asking the question, my mind is racing, but it didn’t have to race. The one thing in particular that will move the needle on your business is recognizing that discomfort doesn’t mean stop. Discomfort probably means I’m growing.

So if you experience discomfort, that intellectual whatever you want to call it, could be fear, could be something else, right? One of my TEDx talks was called Choose Fear, if you want to go take a look at it. It’s the story of one of my earlier speeches. So terrified. But if you’re experiencing discomfort, let’s rewire that in your mind and in your gut to say, ⁓ this means I should go toward it and do that thing.

95 % of humanity will feel that discomfort and say this means I should stop and no longer proceed on this path. Right? The most successful inspectors, residential inspectors, the most successful commercial inspectors, the most successful business owners, sales leaders, most successful CEOs, founders, association executives, they feel that discomfort and realize, this is growth. Growth causes discomfort. I need to do more of this. So it’s a rewiring of your gut to say,

If you’re experiencing discomfort, find a way to go toward it. So that’s ⁓ one thing I would think your commercial inspectors can do. So what does that look like? Reach out to a commercial real estate agent and ask them for lunch. Buy them lunch, invite them to lunch. Don’t say, please buy me lunch. That could be weird. ⁓ But take them for a coffee.

You write the commercial agents that we had at that course that you ran. ⁓ They were just so real. And they said, yeah, well, I’m looking for this and I want this and don’t do this and I don’t like that. So go have some conversations with real estate agents and find out what their life is like and then find out how you can serve them and start to build those relationships. But if you’re fearful, what if I have a conversation? I don’t know all the answers. I better not have that conversation yet. That discomfort.

will cause you to not pick up the phone, not send the email, not pop into that office. And I think that’s going to hold you back. So what will propel you forward? Pick up that phone, send that email, pop into that office and start building relationships with people who work in this business. The second thing I would suggest is, and it’s funny that we didn’t tee this up, but hang out with Rob from CCPIA, like

Success leaves clues, man. And if someone has already done the stuff that you think you want to do, go learn from them, right? You don’t have to invent everything yourself. Someone has already done it. Someone’s walked that path and they have a nice big flashlight and they can point it on the path and tell you what to jump over and what to move around. So hang out with people who are currently doing that, what you want to do, and then emulate them. And that third thing is the third thing is just.

CCPIA (53:01)
You’re way too kind, Chris.

Chris Cummins (53:05)
believe that it’s possible for you. Because that’s the first part. If you think it’s not possible for you, you’re not going to do any of other things. Wasn’t it Aristotle that said,

It’s easy to spot obstacles when all you’re thinking about is obstacles. And it’s easy to spot opportunities when all you’re thinking about is opportunities. If you’re thinking about all the reasons why you can’t do a thing, you’re gonna settle. But if you think of, if you’re consistently looking for opportunities to push yourself outside of your comfort zone, into that growth zone, into that place where you meet people who are doing the stuff that you wanna be doing, you push, you put yourself into the arena, into the theater, more opportunities gonna happen.

it just statistically will. So I would say the three things are push yourself into discomfort for growth, find mentors and ⁓ believe, like believe it’s possible for you.

CCPIA (54:03)
Thank you. You’ve been generous with your time. You’ve been absolutely generous with your knowledge. And I mean, I’d love to hang out a lot more often than we currently do. know, this once a year or once every, you know, or so is just not enough for me, Chris. ⁓ Yeah, it’s funny because I mean,

Chris Cummins (54:23)
It’s just not enough.

CCPIA (54:29)
Toronto and Chicago is not that far away. It was not a big plane. So who knows what this year will bring. Thank you again. ⁓

Chris Cummins (54:35)
No, it’s a short flight.

Well, Rob, I appreciate

the opportunity. ⁓ It’s a treat to hang out with you. I really, value the way your brain works. I like your intellect. You’re a great person and you have such a positive influence on this industry. So thanks for the invitation and thanks for being you.

CCPIA (54:56)
and your honorarium is on the way.